analysis – Page 4 – Cybertronian Database

mylovelyrainblog:

It just occurred to me a lot of people look at TFA Optimus and go What A Cinnamon Roll lol. I do enjoy those posts but that’s someone who was ambitious to meet “the enemy,” was a trained soldier, handled danger stoically, and pretty much was ready to kill

Watch the first episode and you will see.

And last episode when he told Megatron he didn’t deserve death. (Death on the battlefield would at least be an honor wouldn’t it. He’s just as ferocious as Megatron.)

TFA is a very interesting show.

#as much as i enjoy those posts #it is the canonly conflicted and complex Optimus that i like #he is a perfect match to tfa megs #sweet sometimes but dry and stern most of the times #has a heart but far from a sweet summer child #ambitious #transformers: animated #optimus prime #He bought into the agenda wholeheartedly most of the times. Even when he was himself a victim of the system. (via mylovelyrainblog)

iopele:

manicpixiedreamdragon:

radio-cybertron:

manicpixiedreamdragon:

obstinate-nocturna:

manicpixiedreamdragon:

“How dare you make me bleed my own blood!”

Megatron you of all people should know better than to insult the Hatchet

#its interesting how Megatron acts like he doesn’t recognize Ratchet as someone he knows personally and I wonder if thats because #he considers him beneath his notice or because he literally doesn’t recognize Ratchet

There are theories – and it’s one of my theories – is that the Dark Energon warped and corrupted Megatron’s processor and possible some of his memory files. If nothing else the constant influence of Unicorn on him means he feels no connection to those he once had positive connection with and/or twists good/positive emotions into negative ones. And the still ‘sane’/’un corrupted’ part of his processor actively suppress some thing to protect those he really doesn’t want to hurt.

(I wish there was a clear list of what from the Cybertron Games TFP used other than the obvious.)

I think a good portion of it falls in the fact that most of Ratchet’s fighting falls more into the defensive motif, than the offensive. Megatron doesn’t immediately register Ratchet as a threat, possibly for two reasons.

Coding conditioning for all gladiator’s/caste systems could have possibly encoded a no-harm line in their CNA so that medical personnel would not be considered a threat, UNLESS that changes due to the medic attacking. At that point, it becomes self defense.

Or, he simply didn’t consider Ratchet an actual threat- being both healer, and older- he didn’t think he could put up that much of a fight.

And let’s face it- if he didn’t have the extra energon, and the synth-en, there’s a possibility that Megatron would have trounced him more than he did, even with as good a fight as he put up. Ratchet can defend himself damn well, he has to be able to. Part of taking care of your triage on the ground is making sure they stay alive through the battle.

And yourself along with it.

But when Ratchet went offensive, Megatron probably saw him as the threat he could be- and as thus, treated him as a threat- like he would Prime, or Arcee, or Bumblebee. Ratchet’s marker shifted.

And Ratchet got his ass handed to him.

Which is why, after that– if you notice, Ratchet seemed to gain a lot more injuries after that little fight.

Don’t get me wrong, Ratchet’s a hardcore old ambulance, and one hell of a medic- but in a fight? He can defend himself for a matter of time against Megatron, but in the end- the other mech’s skill and stamina would get him.

That would also explain why Knock Out gets away with a lot more failure and well everything without injury than say Starscream.

I think both your and mine mete/theory work good together – he calls his Optimus’ medic because any personal connection has been stripped/suppressed and the not considering a threat/etc from what you said.

@rayearthmagic

The irony of Decepticon individualism- Freedom to do what you want normally translates into following the strong or facing the consequences, so they’re used to following the strong. Of their choice, of course, and which leader they follow may vary and they all know, deep down, if the opportunity came up they could be strong and in charge, but for now it’s better to fall in behind the leader.

decepticonsensual:

baiku:

decepticonsensual:

Yup! And, on the Autobot side, there’s the irony that a lot of Autobots, like Prowl, are devoted to fighting for order, but their entire faction is a chaotic mess of Leeroy-Jenkins-style meteoroid-surfers and loose cannons with their own agendas, without an actual ordered vision of the world they want after the war.

Mmm. I had thoughts about this a day or two back.

Being a good (ideological) Autobot is “heroic nonsense before following orders”. See; everyone who doesn’t listen to their superior and ends up saving the day. Ironically enough, Getaway is doing just this (though through less heroic means to a heroic end) and he is a schemer. Being a good literal Autobot is doing what’s good for everyone, Prowl.

Meanwhile ideological Decepticon is “be your goddamn self wake the fuck up” and honestly, Starscream is perfect. He questions, has ambition, and sticks out. But being a good literal Decepticon is fitting the hell out in the war machine. You’ve got your role, stick to it or you’re repurposed.

Autobots also have thought police, Shadowplay, Institutes, binary guns, idea bullets. Decepticons have thought police that kills or harms you to make you change your mind.
Overlord and Trepan fascinatingly show off these differences, and play off each other well. Overlord manipulates and scares mechs because of what he does to the outside, that affects the inside. Trepan is feared because what he does on the inside, affects the outside, everything.

Just, Cons and Bots, man. Cons and Bots.

Okay, I LOVE this. I think this split between being a good ideological fit with your faction and being a good literal fit with what your faction needs to win is perfect, and really well explained! It makes a lot of sense that for both sides, the ideal is more independent and more individualistic than the actual level of cohesion needed to win a war.

I’m also struck by the fact that Megatron actually calls Starscream the “Decepticon ideal” in All Hail Megatron. He’s strong, fierce, ambitious, and has clawed his way almost to the top. It supports the suggestion that there’s a division between the kind of Decepticon Megatron wants to foster (liberated, individualistic, free to pursue their ambitions as far as their strength and talents allow) and the kind of Decepticon that the pressures of that particular military culture tend to produce (are you actively challenging for leadership? No? Then get back in line!). See also: Megatron’s decision to spare Deadlock after he was sentenced to death for rebelling against his commander. Megatron likes ambitious, independent people, but the faction’s structure does not naturally reward those things.

My only quibble, really, is that I see Getaway as falling much more into the good (literal) Autobot category – he’s trying to do something he sees as a small sacrifice for the greater good, in a very Prowl-like way, in contrast to Rodimus’s “heart over head, every time” heroism.

The differences between the Autobot and Decepticon thought police are also pretty striking, because I think it’s very fitting for the Autobot focus on community that if you’re doing something that’s not for the good of the community, they’ll change you to fit in. It’s really chilling. Whereas the DJD don’t actually try to “fix” people who are being “bad” Decepticons. They punish them, brutally, yes, but in a very weird way, there’s a certain respect for Decepticon individuality in that. “I understand that this is what you have chosen to do/be, and you will not change, and both of us cannot coexist, so prepare to die.” Yes, part of the point is to scare other Decepticons into not trying it, but they never attempted to, say, reprogramme Overlord or Black Shadow.

The Decepticons use mind control on their enemies, but only the Autobots use it on their allies.

Optimus is Belle, Megatron is Gaston AND the Beast!

lyresnake:

travellinglemonworkshop:

zombieheroine:

I see your funny idea, and YES, I like that! I also want to make it serious because that’s how I roll.

Because yeah, this is sort of true, the beauty and the beast motif fits them, and yes, in a sense that Megatron is both sides of the masculinity, the destructive side as well as the civilized side.

Let me elaborate more on the history of this motif and its variation, then I’ll move on Optimus and Megatron, mostly in the TF: Prime verse but also a bit in general.

The motif of the Beauty and the Beast is a popular one with a long history in fairy tales and folklore, and it kind of mixes with the animal spouse motif. ((If you’d like to read more on fairy tale troupes and types, I recommend reading here about

Aarne–Thompson–Uther classification system, which is basically a neat list of troupes.)) There are many version and different takes, and also several thoughts upon what they really are about. The Disney one is actually something of an outlier, because in that it’s the Beast who goes through transformation, not the beauty. In many fairy tale versions that you can find the Beast is a kindhearted, civilized gentleman from the very beginning, and it’s the Beauty who has to learn to see through his monstrosity, accept him, and then he can transform into a human again.

Some have read this as a girl growing up and coming to terms with her sexuality and marriage by leaving her childhood home and learning to see a man through what at first seems like a monster to her. Your kid probably takes a lesson about inner beauty out of the story though, which is just as valid.

You will also note that most of these version lack a Gaston. Disney made a dramatic movie and thus added an antagonist – a good call – and made their own version of the classic story altogether. Personally I think the Disney version is more of a reconstruction and critique of traditional masculinity, as Belle is already the kind and understanding Beauty her predecessors transform into at the end of their story arcs, and the Beast is the one learning about his feelings, learning to be gentle and selfless and earning his form as a man again. And of course there’s Gaston, the loud, self-obsessed man who wants to possess, and doesn’t take no for an answer.

Another the Beauty and the Beast version with comments more on masculinity than the female Beauty maturing is King Kong. Yes, I would argue this, the Peter Jackson version even makes textual references. The Beast is the untamed masculinity of Kong, and the Beauty the pure femininity who tames him. Also in King Kong movies (yes, I have seen four different ones, including the original) there’s often a human man acting as the “right” love interest, whether the Beauty gets with him in the end or not, and the important part is that the roles of a “beastly masculinity” and “civilized masculinity” are split into two characters, just like in the Disney movie.

But how does this motif fit Megatron and Optimus, and especially into Megatron/Optimus with a slash?

Interestingly, I’d say. Well, Optimus is obviously the Beauty, the kind and brave one, but I think he’s already done plenty of maturing, being a seasoned warrior and Commander and all. Also being technically a man he also represents a type of masculinity, a type I find very interesting since he’s depicted as an almost maternal figure: Someone who preserves, protects, resolves and watches over other younger ones. He obviously has the powerful warrior side of him and it comes first, he is Megatron’s match and not only a skilled soldier but the leader of the entire Autobot army too, but a key factor to his warrior side is preserving and obtaining peace, with as little force as possible.

As for Megatron, he is an evil and destructive person, but in TFP I find him to be a masculine ideal in a strangely positive sense: Everything from his design and voice to his character and actions is just so grand, strong and dominating, he’s always in control and super confident in himself, yet he doesn’t have the aspects of toxic masculinity such as fragile ego, secretly insecure or needing to put down others in order to build his own ego. He is genuinely confident, not a secretly weak bully. Yes, he is emotionally unavailable but this is more of an ideal since he doesn’t seem to be suffering from it, and we’re not touching the special abusive thing he has going on with Starscream here since it’s way too serious on singular to go under a bully category. He is violent, ruthless and sometimes even cruel, but he’s also kind of cool while at it.

Where I’m going with this is that in some ways Optimus and Megatron have the beauty and the beast thing going on, if not anything else then at least as a caricature-like, aesthetic thing. But it’s more in the subtext: a kind and protective one meeting an evil destructive one, and the shipping is the part that makes the motif actually fit.

It’s the shipper who decides how this conflict, this meeting of these two beings very at odds, goes and what it amounts to.

Personally I’d like to take this troupe and twist it a little. I take the route of transforming together and accepting the other. I like to think that through their conflict they transform together and ultimately meet in the middle, accepting each other as they are. For example Angela Carter’s The Tiger’s Bride is a retelling of the Beauty and the Beast, and features a beast wearing a human mask, and in the end the heroine transforms into a tiger in order to be with him. She leaves behind the traditional female role and the oppression that comes with it, sends a dolls back home to her father in her place and assumes her true form as a beast to join her love who accepts her, accepting him too in return. This version really speaks to me.

Um. Yeah. It’s an interesting troupe, and your insight prompted me to write this. You could also write your fun Beauty and the Beast AU, complete with the ballroom dance scene with pretty paintjobs if you’d like. It might be more what you, my dear Anon, were going for, but I’m the most boring and serious of all the shippers and thus had to take this troupe along with your insight and set it against the canon.

I don’t really know what this adds up to. I love Megatron/Optimus? I love Megatron/Optimus.

This is a really interesting perspective on both Beauty and the Beast and on Megatron/Optimus; I actually had never thought of the original transformation being Beauty’s, not so much because of Disney’s version (ubiquitous though it is) but because all the other versions I’d read had Beauty’s sisters as models of vanity and pettiness while Beauty herself was The Good One, and the only change she evidenced was becoming less afraid as the Beast became less monstrous. Are there versions in which Beauty is vain and needs to learn humility? Because frankly that sounds a lot more interesting than the trope “love of a good woman saves a dude of questionable past decisions.”

(Also, searching for “the Tiger’s Bride” on Amazon turns up a wide variety of bodice-rippers, but no Angela Carter. Looks like that story is in her collection, “The Bloody Chamber,“ the arrival of which I am now eagerly anticipating.)

… also, I refuse to pick up any more story ideas until I’ve at least finished the damn cave fic. I mean it.

Okay, I’m going to take a little bit of a left turn here, but I wanted to comment since one of my longest TFP MegOp fics is in fact at Beauty and the Beast AU and I have a number of Thoughts on the matter (Read: yes I am going to take a few minutes to bang on about how I think TFP Optimus = the Lady of Shalott some more, sue me).

One could make the argument that the Lady actually parallels Disney’s version of the Beast (she’s shut away in a castle with a mirror as her only window to the outside world, flowers are a recurring motif, doomed love is an idea that’s floated around). And while I’ve not discussed it in that much detail, TFP Orion/Optimus’s character arc parallels the Lady’s in a number of pertinent ways [he’s introduced as part of a cloistered caste (archivist), his given task is to search the DataNet to “weave” a picture of Megatronus, and it’s Megatronus’s voice (not just his words, hearing his voice) that draws him out of his stagnation and frustration and pushes him to step outside his constraints (just as Lancelot’s song sets the events of the poem in motion)]. And don’t even get me started on that whole bit in the Covenant about Megatron “waking him with the movement of his own heart” and the recurring “journey’s end in lover’s meeting” line. So they’ve got the “potentially ~~or entirely~~ doomed love” bit down pat. And if we operate under the assumption introduced by the Covenant, that Optimus has actually been hanging around almost alone for thousands of years, it starts to look more like Megatron is the weird singing village girl who shows up in Optimus’s house and starts making the cutlery dance.

So, I guess what I’m trying to say is, as weird as it sounds, I do see TFP Megop as already an inverted Beauty and the Beast trope rather than one played straight. Not in the sense that the character types are flipped, Megatron still has the aggressive, bestial streak and Optimus is still kind and brave, but more that their roles in the story are inverted. It’s the “Beauty” character who undergoes the most profound transformation. Hell if you broaden your thinking, it’s Optimus who takes on the burden (or curse) of the Matrix in order to match Megatron in battle. And while he never loses his nobility, this is an Optimus who is repeatedly remade into a more efficient weapon, an Optimus who kills, and the blood on his hands weighs on him. And Megatron would just as soon see them be beasts together.

But perhaps most interestingly, Optimus’s final moments in the movie do involve him shedding that curse of war and opening himself up for a new transformation via transcendence of his physical body (just as the Beast does). While it’s Megatron’s perspective (as the Beauty character’s) which is altered. So I suppose you could argue that they’re both transformed by the end of things, and well, if they didn’t get an exactly happy ending, that’s what fanfic is for.

This is a lot of words and I’m not sure I made a point at all but basically yes I also love Megatron/Optimus, in all its strange and beautiful iterations.

Im going to preface this with the fact that the only things i know ab transformers is from my friend who wad very into it in highschool. My question is though: im assuming that these robots are created. Does that mean there is a mold out there to punch faces into metal for these giant robot men?

surprisedentistry:

great question! the way Transformers are created/come into existence varies between continuities. the only continuity that i’m personally familiar with is the IDW G1 comics, in which there are three ways that Transformers come into existence:

forging, the “natural” way for a Transformer to be born. all Transformers have an organ called a “spark,” which is more or less the source of their life force? anyway, the general idea is that there are dormant sparks in the ground, surrounded by a base substance called sentio metallico, which forms their body.
a kind of energy wave generated from a structure within the planet called Vector Sigma comes through and ignites the spark, and the spark contains “genetic instructions” for how their body should take shape.

occasionally if something’s going wrong and the baby Transformer isn’t taking shape, a “blacksmith” can help the process (which is just another Transformer who has that particular job/role). but in theory, it’s a naturally occurring process.

cold construction, the “unnatural” way for a Transformer to be born. the energy waves produced by Vector Sigma slowed down, and thus the natural process of Transformer reproduction slowed down. that made The Powers That Be kind of nervous, since they needed new people to exploit to keep their empire running.
so the government abused a certain powerful artifact of considerable religious importance in order to artificially ignite sparks and create new Transformers. those sparks still contained the genetic instructions mentioned above, but they were put into prefabricated bodies instead of being allowed to naturally develop their own.

cold construction was kind of a controversial thing and served as the foundation for a system of apartheid between forged and cold constructed Transformers and it’s still kind of a touchy subject millions of years later

being brought into existence by an disturbingly horny spider furry who just wants to be a good dad. it only happened that one time, though

Optimus is Belle, Megatron is Gaston AND the Beast!

zombieheroine:

I see your funny idea, and YES, I like that! I also want to make it serious because that’s how I roll.

Because yeah, this is sort of true, the beauty and the beast motif fits them, and yes, in a sense that Megatron is both sides of the masculinity, the destructive side as well as the civilized side.

Let me elaborate more on the history of this motif and its variation, then I’ll move on Optimus and Megatron, mostly in the TF: Prime verse but also a bit in general.

The motif of the Beauty and the Beast is a popular one with a long history in fairy tales and folklore, and it kind of mixes with the animal spouse motif. ((If you’d like to read more on fairy tale troupes and types, I recommend reading here about

Aarne–Thompson–Uther classification system, which is basically a neat list of troupes.)) There are many version and different takes, and also several thoughts upon what they really are about. The Disney one is actually something of an outlier, because in that it’s the Beast who goes through transformation, not the beauty. In many fairy tale versions that you can find the Beast is a kindhearted, civilized gentleman from the very beginning, and it’s the Beauty who has to learn to see through his monstrosity, accept him, and then he can transform into a human again.

Some have read this as a girl growing up and coming to terms with her sexuality and marriage by leaving her childhood home and learning to see a man through what at first seems like a monster to her. Your kid probably takes a lesson about inner beauty out of the story though, which is just as valid.

You will also note that most of these version lack a Gaston. Disney made a dramatic movie and thus added an antagonist – a good call – and made their own version of the classic story altogether. Personally I think the Disney version is more of a reconstruction and critique of traditional masculinity, as Belle is already the kind and understanding Beauty her predecessors transform into at the end of their story arcs, and the Beast is the one learning about his feelings, learning to be gentle and selfless and earning his form as a man again. And of course there’s Gaston, the loud, self-obsessed man who wants to possess, and doesn’t take no for an answer.

Another the Beauty and the Beast version with comments more on masculinity than the female Beauty maturing is King Kong. Yes, I would argue this, the Peter Jackson version even makes textual references. The Beast is the untamed masculinity of Kong, and the Beauty the pure femininity who tames him. Also in King Kong movies (yes, I have seen four different ones, including the original) there’s often a human man acting as the “right” love interest, whether the Beauty gets with him in the end or not, and the important part is that the roles of a “beastly masculinity” and “civilized masculinity” are split into two characters, just like in the Disney movie.

But how does this motif fit Megatron and Optimus, and especially into Megatron/Optimus with a slash?

Interestingly, I’d say. Well, Optimus is obviously the Beauty, the kind and brave one, but I think he’s already done plenty of maturing, being a seasoned warrior and Commander and all. Also being technically a man he also represents a type of masculinity, a type I find very interesting since he’s depicted as an almost maternal figure: Someone who preserves, protects, resolves and watches over other younger ones. He obviously has the powerful warrior side of him and it comes first, he is Megatron’s match and not only a skilled soldier but the leader of the entire Autobot army too, but a key factor to his warrior side is preserving and obtaining peace, with as little force as possible.

As for Megatron, he is an evil and destructive person, but in TFP I find him to be a masculine ideal in a strangely positive sense: Everything from his design and voice to his character and actions is just so grand, strong and dominating, he’s always in control and super confident in himself, yet he doesn’t have the aspects of toxic masculinity such as fragile ego, secretly insecure or needing to put down others in order to build his own ego. He is genuinely confident, not a secretly weak bully. Yes, he is emotionally unavailable but this is more of an ideal since he doesn’t seem to be suffering from it, and we’re not touching the special abusive thing he has going on with Starscream here since it’s way too serious on singular to go under a bully category. He is violent, ruthless and sometimes even cruel, but he’s also kind of cool while at it.

Where I’m going with this is that in some ways Optimus and Megatron have the beauty and the beast thing going on, if not anything else then at least as a caricature-like, aesthetic thing. But it’s more in the subtext: a kind and protective one meeting an evil destructive one, and the shipping is the part that makes the motif actually fit.

It’s the shipper who decides how this conflict, this meeting of these two beings very at odds, goes and what it amounts to.

Personally I’d like to take this troupe and twist it a little. I take the route of transforming together and accepting the other. I like to think that through their conflict they transform together and ultimately meet in the middle, accepting each other as they are. For example Angela Carter’s The Tiger’s Bride is a retelling of the Beauty and the Beast, and features a beast wearing a human mask, and in the end the heroine transforms into a tiger in order to be with him. She leaves behind the traditional female role and the oppression that comes with it, sends a dolls back home to her father in her place and assumes her true form as a beast to join her love who accepts her, accepting him too in return. This version really speaks to me.

Um. Yeah. It’s an interesting troupe, and your insight prompted me to write this. You could also write your fun Beauty and the Beast AU, complete with the ballroom dance scene with pretty paintjobs if you’d like. It might be more what you, my dear Anon, were going for, but I’m the most boring and serious of all the shippers and thus had to take this troupe along with your insight and set it against the canon.

I don’t really know what this adds up to. I love Megatron/Optimus? I love Megatron/Optimus.

primus-why:

primus-why:

I mean, if you think about it, Transformers is just about Robot Moses vs Robot Jesus (usually told from the perspective of the disciples/followers of Robot Jesus).

Megatron: Was born into slavery; rose the ranks in society for a bit; went back down to the gallows to inspire a movement within the lower castes; challenged authority on his and their behalf; led those people out of their slavery with the intent of taking hold of their freedom, getting to a better place in life, and not looking back.

Optimus: Humble beginnings; graced by the power of the local diety, but still walks among everyone else; inspired a movement emphasizing not judging others (yes even the ones their society would normally be repulsed by); often delves into long, teaching-moment speeches; carries symbol in his body that can prove his divinity; usually dies to save everyone; can also come back from the dead.

lalalabot:

Just realized, TFA Megatron probably had never been really betrayed by anyone close to him before the start of season one, Starscream’s sabotege.

When he spotted lugnut and blitzwing on earth, he wondered if he can trust them: “but can they be trusted? After all, I have already been betrayed by one of my own.”

(If I’m not imagining it, he appears a bit melancholy and gravely about that. Considering he was reduced to a head at the time… well, he’s more than earned the right.) The wording and sentiments suggest that he didn’t have to worry about it earlier.

However, I also remember he didn’t trust Starscream much from episode 1. Maybe he just didn’t think he’d actually go to the extend of murder? Well… It made sense this Megatron could actually be someone who hadn’t been disillusioned about honors and trusts. It certainly explains why he gave Starscream the chance to stand behind his back and actually pat him, but he learned fast! (Promptedly offed SS the first chance he got. Makes you wonder about the other Megatrons…)

Anyway, it’s just very refreshing to see such a (somewhat) balanced Megatron for a change. Often times the incarnations got rather unhealthy in the head… not that it’s uninteresting in itself!

pixelchaos00:

megarowboat:

man i sorta noticed an interesting thing abt tfa comlinks?? the autobots press their fingers against the side of their helmets in order to talk, while decepticons can apparently just speak into the air and it will register

which i mean! fits really well if we go with the whole “decepticons are military” thing, ‘cuz you might not have a free arm in battle to call someone

~~but it also means that decepticons are voice activity scrubs who don’t use push to talk~~

Does that imply that “callers” could listen in on a Decepticon? Is their comlink linked with their brain or is it all the time turbed on? This also can be very useful when captured. They could let their comlink line just open and other ‘Cons are able to hear where they might be captured or who is holding them somewhere. The fact, that Decepticons don’t need to push anything to just talk through their comlink is pretty cool and helpful. Though, if it is possible to be hacked, Autobots could use this to listen to any conversation the ‘Cons will have.

megarowboat:

man i sorta noticed an interesting thing abt tfa comlinks?? the autobots press their fingers against the side of their helmets in order to talk, while decepticons can apparently just speak into the air and it will register

which i mean! fits really well if we go with the whole “decepticons are military” thing, ‘cuz you might not have a free arm in battle to call someone

~~but it also means that decepticons are voice activity scrubs who don’t use push to talk~~